An interesting exchange

The following is an interesting exchange of views. The messages below have been copied from the Conservatives website, from their "Security" message board.


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Muslims ARE Evil !
I call on all Catholics to support the Pope against these evil Muslims in our midst. Vote for the British National Party at the May elections.

Posted by Glennis on 15/11/2006
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No threat if they can't get in.
If we stop all immigration into our country we would inevitably stop the threat of terrorism. To some extent. Our armed forces must be built up to defend our country from such evil's which in my view incluedes all foreigners as they cannot be trusted. I am apologetic to all those who are probably very good workers and would be an asset to the country. But i am more interested in keeping Britain safe than increasing labour as un-employment has risen, again. If the BNP is a party willing to act then maybe i should vote for them, if this party does no i will.

Posted by Chris on 15/11/2006
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Britain is going to become Islamic
Due to mass immigration and low birth rates of indigenous Britons compared to high rates of muslims, Britain, as well as Europe, WILL become Islamic if something drastic does not happen soon. Please read my blog http://godhelpbritain.blogspot.com

Posted by Britney British on 15/11/2006

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well funded military and a less working immagrants
how abpot a properly equiped military proper rifels that dont jam the sa 80 is a piece of rubish decent armour properly armerd APC's (armoured personal carriers) ectbecause at the moment its a joke and yeah cutt imaagration i am having a very hard time finding work at the moment and every where i look there are foreingers working the cinema ect the type of work british students would be more than happy to do

Posted by christopher on 15/11/2006

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Islam is not evil- the terrorists are evil
Lets get the facts straight for some of the people below who are saying that islam is evil. i am a muslim and TERRORISM MAKES ME SICK. You cannot call a religion evil because of the sins of a handfull of mind-bent brainwashed militants around the world. i completely disagree with suicide bombing.

Posted by Mehmet Imamzade on 16/11/2006
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The concept of JIHAD
Jihad is the concept of holy war. But this is not and excuse for terrorism, and killing innocent people. Lets think about this. If Britain was suddenly invaded by a foreign power and you decided to fight to defend your country does that make you a terrorist? Surely not. Therefore why is it wrong for those in Iraq to fight for their country? think about that.

Posted by Mehmet Imamzade on 16/11/2006

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Blair's war
Why on earth do you [Conservatives] continually support Blair's pre-emptive war with Iraq? The fact that, by default, we have rid the world of a tyrant by regime change does not alter the reasons first given for the unholy mess we are in now, both in the International arena and on the home front. Blair lied to the electorate. I do not say to Parliament because, by your silence and lack of condemnation I wonder whether you were party to the deceit. If not, attack Blair and his inner cabinet on this front. The electorate will be with you 100%.

Posted by Jim Hendry on 16/11/2006

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Secure borders equals a secure country.
I joined the Young Conservatives 6 weeks ago because this country cannot afford another Labour 'Government'. Cameron would be prime minister if he makes stronger pledges on immigration, not just limits, but deporting criminals and illegal Aliens. Mass Immigration is a huge threat to the country, the BNP see this, so why can't Cameron?

Posted by Young Conservative on 16/11/2006

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What is a true Muslim?
In response to the comment by Mehmet Imamzade: I am pleased to see that you abhor terrorism, as I am sure most people do. However, can I ask you, as you are a Muslim, do you believe that every verse in the Quran is the revealed word of Allah? No doubt that you will be familiar with the concept of "abrogation". This means that the earlier (chronologically) verses, which are generally very tolerant, are superceeded by some very bloodthirsty verses. Is it not therefore the duty of all true Muslims to obey these later verses? For example: "And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers." Quran 2.191 There are many more similar verses. http://st-george-true.blogspot.com/

Posted by Lionheart on 17/11/2006

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My views on Islam
Firstly I would like to thank Lionheart for his below comments. I appreciate what you have said and although I am by no means an Islamic expert I would like to tell you what I know. The most important thing to bear in mind whilst reading this is that translated verses cannot give an as direct or understandable meaning as would the Arabic. Firstly I would like to comment on the so-called "abrogation" of the Qur’an. Below is a quote from the Qur’an pretty much answering part of your question: ‘‘(16:101) And now that We replace one Message by another, for Allah is fully Aware of what He reveals in stages, some people say, "You are an inventor. But most of them do not know. (16:102) Tell them, " The Holy Spirit (‘Gibril’ or Gabriel) has brought it down from your Lord in Absolute Truth. This Qur'an will keep firm in thought and action, those who accept it. And it will provide Guidance and the good news to all who submit to Allah.’’ Basically the Qur’an acknowledges here that things were slightly different in other verses. But more importantly you must understand that these verses were revealed over the course of the prophet’s life, therefore they were revealed under different climates of peace or war and different circumstances.
In relation to your quote given about the ‘violent’ later verses I would like to say that YOUR QUOTES ARE OUT OF CONTEXT. For example if you read the following passage which includes your quote you shall understand what I mean: ‘‘Fight in the Cause of Allah those who wage war against you, but do not commit aggression. Behold, Allah loves not aggressors. (22:39).’’ This is from another surah (or chapter) but it shows you that the Qur’an does not incite violence, only common self-defence. “2:191 (But if they keep on fighting), subdue them wherever you find them. And drive them out from where they have driven you out.’’ Again self-defence. It goes by the same idea as if someone enters your house and throws you out, you would try to get them out so you can have your house back. “For, oppression, cruelty and persecution are even more severely destructive than the killing in battle. And fight not against them near the Sacred House that is a Symbol of unified submission of all mankind to their Creator, unless they attack you therein. But if they attack you there, then fight against them. Such is the reward of those who refuse to acknowledge and then violate the sanctity of the Sanctuary of Peace for all humanity. (The Sacred Kaaba( in Makkah must be a safe Sanctuary and a source of peace and security for all mankind (2:144-148)’’ Thank you for reading. I hope this has made you realise that I follow a religion of peace. NOT A RELIGION WHERE MADMEN THINK THAT KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE WILL GET THEM TO HEAVEN. GOD WILL SEND THEM STRAIGHT TO HELL FOR TERRORISM.

Posted by Mehmet Imamzade on 17/11/2006


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My Thoughts
Safety is a key area in this country that definately requires improvement. Terrorism is absolutely incondonable and we have to work together to make our means of prevention and recover better. Our borders are unpatrolled and uncontrolled. Immigration is good in parts but over-immigration, which we are now suffering, is not. It is irresponsible for Blair's government to have ignored these issues over the years and at the next General Election it will be goodbye Labour and Hello Conservatives. It is our responsibility and priority to protect ourselves and as such we need to aid other countries, such as Afghanistan, in terms of security. However, currently our army is far too stretched and this leaves Britain wide open to attack. It is not good enough and we must act.

Posted by Liam Spalding on 18/11/2006


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Wither Islam?

At some time in the future, Britain will become an Islamic state if present trends continue. At that time, we will each have three choices: Either convert to Islam, or pay an additional tax as an acknowledgement of our inferiority and subjugation, or have our head cut off. None of these options is particularly inspiring!

It is a frequent misconception, or deliberate propaganda, that the word "Islam" means "peace". It does not. The word "Islam" is derived from the Arabic word "al-silm", which means "surrender" or "submission".

Within British law, a witness must "tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth". British law has its roots in Judaeo-Christian principles. Such principles of honesty do not apply within Islam. Mohammed himself ignored a peace treaty, and so there can be little hope that Muslims today will do otherwise. Peace treaties are regarded as temporary ceasfires, to be reneged when convenient, not as an end to hostilities. We have but to consider the frequent rocket attacks and bombings of civilians in Israel, following numerous peace treaties over the years, which demonstrates a basic dishonesty by Muslims.

You can see that this is so, from this quote from the Hadith:

"Whenever I tell you a narration from Allah's Apostle, by Allah, I would rather fall down from the sky than ascribe a false statement to him, but if I tell you something between me and you (not a Hadith) then it was indeed a trick (i.e., I may say things just to cheat my enemy)." Hadith Volume 9, Book 84, Number 64

Each of us is born with free will, and our own mind, to allow us to think rationally. Within practical constraints, we can choose our own course through life. We have the free will to choose our religious beliefs, or indeed to reject those beliefs that we may have been taught. I have no problems with religions other than Islam (Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Paganism etc). These other religions, as far as I know, do not call for non-believers to be slaughtered. It is your free choice what you wish to believe. You can believe in UFOs, or fairies at the bottom of the garden, and I really will not mind. However, when you believe that the aliens, or the fairies, or Allah is commanding you to cut off my head, simply because I do not believe the things that you do, then that is a serious problem for me, and indeed for the whole of humanity.

As I am not a Muslim, the Quran has no power over me at all. The Quran has numerous bloodthirsty verses, and maybe the particular verse that I quoted earlier was not the best choice. It matters little which verses I choose to read however, since I will certainly not carry out their instructions to slaughter, rape, torture or stone anybody. It is the case however, that the Quran is the single most significant document that inspires, condones, commands, and glorifies Islamic terrorism.

I am criticised for taking a verse out of context. However, Muslims generally are very good at taking words out of context. Consider the Pope's lecture. How many of the Muslims who burned effigies of the Pope, or burned Churches, or murdered a nun actually read the Pope's lecture? I suspect very few did. At the core of the Pope's lecture were two important points: Fistly, that God abhors bloodshed. Secondly, that faith without reason is nothing. By quoting from a Byzantine emperor, the Pope demonstrates that it has not been possible to have a reasoned dialogue with Muslims for at least the last 600 years.

My own motivation for studying the Quran has been to try to understand why Muslims would wish to blow us up. Finding numerous bloodthirsty verses goes a long way to explaining it. I do suspect however, that many Muslims do not really understand their own religion. For example, we are told that there is no god but Allah. However, the existence of three goddesses is rarely mentioned. They are: al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat. One goddess, al-Lat, is associated with the moon, another, al-Uzza, with the evening star (Venus). Hence the crescent moon and star symbols found on the flags of many Islamic states, and on top of mosques etc. The third goddess, Manat, is associted with a pair of shears, with which she cuts the thread of life. (Maybe when it came to Jesus, this goddess had an argument with Allah. Maybe she cut the thread of life, and Allah restored it, hence the resurrection from the dead. Sorry, I am just being mischevous.) Prior to the rise of Islam, all three goddesses were worshipped at Mecca, together with their father, the moon god al-Llah (Allah). Go to the following website for more details: http://www.bible.ca/islam/

Mehmet Imamzade, thank you for your reply. However, you did not directly answer one of my questions: Do you believe that every verse in the Quran is the revealed word of Allah? In other words, was it the case that some verses were inspired by evil spirits or Satan? If so, how can we be sure which verses were inspired by good, and which verses were inspired by evil? If a chronologically later verse was inspired by evil, should it be permitted to abrogate an earlier verse that was inspired by good? Alternatively, if all verses in the Quran were inspired by Allah alone, how can it be that Allah would initially be good, and then later be evil? If Allah is all-knowing, why would he firstly say one thing, and later say something contradictory? Surely Allah can see the future, and would realise how confusing this would be? If the first statements were true, why would Allah subsequently lie? If the later statements are true, why had Allah lied initially?

I can see that you regard Islamic terrorists as not being true Muslims. However, it may well be that they consider you not to be a true Muslim either. Are there any Islamic terrorists, or terrorist sympathisers reading these words, who would like to state their point of view?

I can understand that you may be struggling with your faith. This is nothing to be ashamed of, and as I wrote a few paragraphs earlier, we are each born with free will, and a logical mind. It may be that I cannot help you very much with your struggle to find the truth, as I have never been a Muslim. However, I have found a website for former Muslims, which you may find useful: "The Apostates of Islam". http://www.apostatesofislam.com/

I do believe that Muslims themselves are the single largest group of victims of the Quran. There are well over one billion of our fellow humans, whose lives are blighted by following this religion of "peace".

http://st-george-true.blogspot.com/


Posted by Lionheart on 21/11/2006


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Immigration
It is important not to misdiagnose why we lost the last General Election: television focus groups unanimously supported our tough stance on immigration, while, regrettably, unanimously disliking Michael Howard as leader, which is why I believe we lost. We have changed leaders: let us not throw out the baby with the bathwater. The issue is two-fold: absolute population levels and the nature of change, and I believe the Conservative Party should make pronouncements on both. On the first, it is worth reminding ourselves that Britain is one of the most densely-populated countries on Earth. When I was at school (I’m 54), the UK population was 54million; today it stands at 60million, a rise equivalent to the populations of Scotland and Northern Ireland. The wider context is a world population of 6.5billion, expected to rise to 9billion by 2050 - a 45 per cent rise in 45 years. If the UK reflects that trend through immigration, our figure will rise to 90million by mid-century. If that is untenable, the logical conclusion is that at some point the number must be pegged. As indigenous growth cannot be avoided, the only area for control is immigration. Why is it important? Because we tackle all our social problems - transport gridlock, house-building in the countryside etc - as self-contained, instead of as symptoms of the underlying cause: population growth. Yet, surprisingly, the prospect of a population cap is on no-one’s political agenda. Simple totals, of course, hide a picture of a changing demography, but at some point we have to consider just how many people this land of ours can take. Planners say 400,000 homes must be built here in the West Country over the next 20 years to cope with expanding population and the trend to single-person households. That many homes would destroy the very environment we cherish so much in this region. Yet Tony Blair and his Ministers blithely accept unlimited growth. Just how many people do they think the country can sustain?
100million, 200 million? I think we should be told. The second key issue is that immigration is changing the traditional, cultural, ethnic, religious and political profile of the country. The latest (2004) figure of 223,000 immigrants is misleading because that was a net total. Gross immigration that year was actually 582,000, from which the 360,000 emigrants were subtracted. There is a case for adding the two, instead of subtracting, to get a better measure of the change in the country’s profile. Are we comfortable with pinching qualified doctors from countries which arguably need them more, or employing foreign labourers on the cheap in some kind of rekindled slave trade? More importantly, millions of people want to hold onto the classic profile of the country for its own sake. They should not be made to feel guilty for doing so.

Posted by JS on 21/11/2006


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This is a policy forum, lets keep to policy
I am a young muslim, and i do not know everything about my religion, but i do not want to turn this into an online debate for Islam, this is a political website, so lets try to keep it that way. Of course religion will intertwine with politics all the time, and i cannot tell you or anyone that one religion is better than another. A person must find their own path in life. On behalf of Islam, all i can say is that it is the worlds fastest growing religion, and it has already far outgrown the Catholic church. As i said lets keep this about policy, but if anyone would like to post questions about Islam in Britain regarding Conservative policy please do so and i will look forward to posting my own comments.

Posted by Mehmet Imamzade on 21/11/2006



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Islam IS a Security Issue
You might not think Islam is an issue worthy of discussion but I do and I believe many others do. Are you trying to hush hush the subject? Sorry mate but it's a big problem to Britain. As things are going, Britain will become an Islamic state in the next 20 to 25 years. I see that as the biggest security issue ever to hit these isles. This is the 'security' section after all.
Link: http://godhelpbritain.blogspot.com

Posted by Britney British on 21/11/2006


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Security for homosexuals
When (rather than if) Sharia law is introduced into Britain, there will be severe penalties for homosexuals. Mehmet Imamzade, would you be happy to see homosexuals stoned to death? Surely this is a very serious security issue? It is estimated that some 4000 homosexuals may have been executed in Iran since the Islamic revolution in 1979.
Link: http://st-george-true.blogspot.com/

Posted by Lionheart on 22/11/2006

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security
Why not use our reseve forces to bolster security at our ports, train stations and airports. (thats if they're not all overseas.) contary to popular belief they are highly trained. I spent 3years as a RAF Gunner (Reservist) and spent most of my time running around catterick training area. This action would save money and allow immigration officers to concetrate on deporting, sorry i mean processing the asylum seekers.

Posted by daniel kane on 22/11/2006


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Homosexuality in Islam
I think the idea that Britain will become an Islamic state is far-fetched and exaggerated. With concerns to homosexuality there is no doubt that in Islam homosexuality is considered 'sinful'. Homosexuality as far as Islam is concerned is a profound mistake (as are all sins if they are not intending to do wrong). Humans are not homosexuals by nature. People become homosexuals because of their environments. Particularly critical is the environment during puberty. Suggestions, ideas & strange dreams are symptoms of confused attempts to understand new and blunt sexual desires and are rashly interpreted as defining someone as being one sexuality or another. If these conclusions are accompanied by actual homosexual acts they are even more strongly reinforced. Human instincts can be subjected to acts of will. Sexuality is a choice of identity which follows choices of action which follow from choices of what to have sexual fantasies about. Human beings are especially able to control their thoughts, entertaining some and dismissing others. It has been suggested that homosexuality is genetically inherited and that those who have this 'predisposition' are victims of it not sinners of any sort. However, there are other things which are probably genetically influenced to give predispositions to for example gambling or alcoholism .It could also be argued (and has been) that it is programmed into men's genetics for them to be unfaithful to their partner. All these things don't make it the right thing to do, nor does it prevent these things from being regarded as sinful.

Posted by Mehmet Imamzade on 22/11/2006


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I would not like homosexuals so be stoned to death
Stoning to death for homosexuality? I do not think that this is appropriate in this day and age, i do not agree that death is a solution. About the concept of killing a person for adultery, let me metiontion some quotes from the bible. It reads: "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die." (Deuteronomy 22: 22) and also in Leviticus, we find the following verse:"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife-with the wife of his neighbor-both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death" (Leviticus 20: 10). Therefore such punishments which Lionheart mentioned as Shariah Law, are indeed in his very own faith. Let me also mention that the Qur'an completely respects Jesus and indeed the Virgin Mary as holy. Thank you for reading

Posted by Mehmet Imamzade on 22/11/2006


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Security for women

Under Sharia law, a woman's testimony is valued at only half of a man's testimony.

In the case of a rape, where there are no witnesses, a woman will usually find that her life becomes unbearable if she reports it.

If she brings her complaint to a Sharia court, it is highly likely that she will be convicted of adultery, and the man, her rapist, will receive only a very light penalty, if at all.

The penalty for adultery is extreme: Either a severe beating, or even stoning to death. One way that a woman can avoid this, is to marry the man. He then has complete authority to rape her whenever he feels like it. Here is a quote from the Quran:

"Your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like" Quran 2.223

In addition, a woman prisoner or slave ("those whom your right hand possesses") can be raped repeatedly without any penalty at all:

"O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war" Quran 33.50

Mehmet Imamzade, do you think it is right that a woman's testimony is valued at only half of a man's testimony?


Link: http://st-george-true.blogspot.com/

Posted by Lionheart on 23/11/2006

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Homosexuality in IslamPlease moderator...do not remove this message again. It is factual and relevant to a previous message.The muslim who ealier said homosexuality is a sin and is not human is talking utter nonsesense! Muslim men are, and always have been, humping each other. 50% of muslim men in Arab countries have or do have *** with men compared to 10% worldwide. The Turks used to have young boys service them in bath houses, the Persians used to have dancing boys offer 'extras', the Ottomans used to take boys to battle so they could help fight during the day and help 'relax' the men at night, the Moors were into pedesterey (old men having long standing love affairs with boys). Even Mohammad had two male lovers (plutonic or not) and didn't produce a baby with any of his latter wives...he couldn't get it up! If you shroud your women, the men will simply find each other beautiful. Stop with your pathetic hypocracy. You execute homosexuals in muslim countries yet IN those muslim countries there is far more *** *** than in the West. You blame the West for AIDS yet AIDS is on the increase in muslim countries...amazing considering there is supposed to be no *** outside of marriage...hmmm...a conundrum. Stop blaming the West for your ailments and stop having *** with under aged boys and girls, stop hiding away your women and stop murdering male lovers. Homosexuality *** is ok as long as it doesn't involve consensual *** between two lovers in muslim countries. If it's an older man humping a young boy, it's ok. A serious case of the very very very black pot calling the kettle black. Go on...deny it....surprise me.p.s. homosexual *** has been observed in almost 500 animal species and in one Africa tribe, men and women are almost always kept apart...and the men have *** with each other as a matter of course. Muslim countries are somewhere in between that African tribe and the Western world. Posted by Britney British on Sat, 25 Nov 2006 01:14:59 GMT

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Be Realistic on UK SecurityOK. Let's be very realistic here folks. The world is changing, and changing so fast that Britain has to keep up with the times. The times are: other nations are arming themsevles with Nuclear Weapons, and possibly so are the terrorists. So the idea that we have to give up our nuclear arsenal for the sake of money, and peace is unreal. We need our nuclear arsenal to keep our sovereignty and independance, it is our final guarantee of that. We cannot give it all up, in the hope that the world will follow. In the real world, well just become powerless and useless on the international stage if we did such a thing. So No. Keep the nukes, and yes re-equip our military forces to keep them up to date with the modern technological world. Secondly, our nation is under attack and has been for at least a decade maybe more. Our borders have been breached, our security has been rubbish. We need to make our borders (ports, airports etc) like the Fort Knox of Britain. Then once we've done that we can go through British Society prosecuting any person who verbally or physically attacks British citizens. We need decisive action, not law passing which is all that Labour seems to do. I feel i can trust, David Cameron and Liam Fox with British Security. Posted by Elliott Adair on Sun, 26 Nov 2006 10:35:36 GMT

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Security for Jews
There are certain similarities between Nazi doctrines, and Islamic doctrines.
For example, both wish to exterminate Jews. Both spread their ideology by violent means where necessary. Both have a supremacist attitude.
Here are some quotes:
"Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' " " Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
"And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!" Quran 9.30
"Wherefore for the iniquity of those who are Jews did We disallow to them the good things which had been made lawful for them and for their hindering many (people) from Allah's way. And their taking usury though indeed they were forbidden it and their devouring the property of people falsely, and We have prepared for the unbelievers from among them a painful chastisement." Quran 4.160-161
"O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand." Quran 8.65 "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection." Quran 9.29
I have been criticised for taking a quote out of context. However, what is important is not whether a non-Muslim has some minor misunderstanding of a particular quote, but whether a Muslim will act upon their instructions. It is common knowledge that the leaders of Iran would like to see Israel wiped off the map.
The horrors of the Nazi concentration camps are well documented. We should not imagine that the Jewish people are in any less danger today.
In Britain we see the increasing number of anti-semitic desecrations of Jewish cemetries.
Mehmet Imamzade, do you not think that it is high time that Islam should stop targeting Jews?


Posted by Lionheart on Mon, 27 Nov 2006

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POOR LITTLE INNICENT PALESTINIANS....NASTY NASTY ISRAELIS
The dirty tactics of war in the Middle East which expose the REAL nasties.
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSNEYIPx6Qs

Posted by Britney British on 27/11/2006



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Death Penalty
In light of recent events - paticularly two murders in London, the banker in Chelsea and the lawyer in Queens Park - it seems to me that it is time to reconsider the death penalty for application to those who would otherwise be given life sentences with min tariffs of 15-20 years or more, and who kill in cold blood in the midst of an assault on unarmed victims and show no remorse or comprehension of the severity of their crimes. These creatures should be put down without delay to remove their threat to society and to relieve taxpayers of the burden of keeping them in prison for 20 years or more - current cost about £700K each. Sadly, these creatures probably can not be rehabilitated and will never make any positive contribution to society and should not be allowed to roam free again. Rather than "huggin' hoodies" we should be showing them that society values those who make a positive effort and work to the best of their abilities to make this world a better place whilst also placing NO Value on those who would rob and murder innocent members of the public to satisfy their own agendas. "Obedience to Law is Liberty" and if you do not obey the law, your liberty will be removed. In these cases, I believe these murdering creatures should be removed from this earth and no more money than it takes to end their lives should be spent on them.

Posted by Ted Wynne on 28/11/2006



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Military Strength
Mr Cameron, the world is changing rapidly and it isn't waiting for Britain. The world is a dangerous place and we are slowly becoming a servant of America's will. Now, I am all for being an ally of America, in fact I'm quite proud we are an ally of the world superpower, but there will come a day when America are knocked off the top and that leaves us alone with no super ally and a lot of upset countries, there was a time when we were one of the world superpowers, we need to build up our military strength again. I'm not proposing we become a militarist state, I'm suggesting we are realistic about the threat to not only our security, but the security of countries worldwide. The British military needs to be able to hold its own ground without the backing of America, the UN or NATO. If we want to continue sending soldiers and armed forces personnel to foreign countries we need to becoming militarily stronger. We need money investing in the armed forces for incentives for joining, at the moment I can only see negatives. In countries like Australia the soldiers are treated like the people we owe our life to, the people who risk their lives protecting us. We need to do the same. Our soldiers are among the best in the world......let's start treating them like they are!

Posted by Antony on 04/12/2006



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open eys
well i see alot of anti islamic propaganda, twising of words on this site, comments and even actions made by certain individuals. well it appears that the quran itself has been misquoted can u find me any statement in their that clearly says terrorism is right? people may claim to be muslim but people claim to be alot of things im sure in the bible it says 'turn the other cheek' but is that happening? is there any form of 'love thy neighbour' taking place? if we all got along and sorted one anothers differences and everthing wasnt about money an corruption maybe we would see a result but unfortunatley its not that way. it also appears very clear that when the IRA were boming our country were they called Christian Terrorists? no, thats you cant blame religion for human errors but humans themselves and if we start to see eachother as humans that alone iwll make a difference were all the same and were all brothers...i dont slaughter or slander any one but only love.

Posted by simon on 05/12/2006


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Security
1. There is way too much use of cameras and the like in the UK, we have become the Big Nanny and Covert Brother outlined in 1984 by Orwell. 2. It is about time that we accepted that our role in Iraq is making the UK a target for terrorists, but we are there and we must back our troops to the hilt with all the equipment and men they need to do the job. Having said that we should work to find an honourable way of getting our boys out. The USA will never extricate itself well, because history has told us that they never do. The second invasion of Iraq was based on economic factors and little else and Mr Blair should have owned up and resigned, but he is too like Maggie Thatcher to do that. 3. If the Uk is going to continue to send troops on so called peacekeeping missions with or without the UN then we had better face up to the fact that we need a larger standing armed force. Our guys are the best in the world but they need more men,equipment and support. It is not necessarily nuclear weaponry that is needed. 4. We could gain a considerable improvement in fighting crime with more policemen on the beat, not just stuck in offices and cars.

Posted by Patrick on 05/12/2006


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Response to Simon's post of 05/12/2006
Nice sentiments, but I doubt that you've read either the Qur'an or Hadith, have you? Qur’an 9:5 "When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, beleaguer them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war." Surprised? I could also suggest doing a few internet searches and reading up on the killings of "Asma bint Marwan", "Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf", "Abu 'Afak" and the men of the "Banu Qurayza" tribe.
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asma_bint_Marwan

Posted by Cantabrigian on 06/12/2006


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Security of the UK
To increase UK Security: 1. The creation of a Border Defence Authority with the resources and power to monitor, board and sieze any vessel entering UK waters that is suspicious. Officers would need powers of arrest as well. 2. Merging of those police forces that want to merge. 3. Creating a properly government funded HM Coastguard Agency by merging HM Coastguard & the MCA. 4. Creating the Civil Guard to take over cave & mountain rescue services, nuclear accident response, and bomb disposal.

Posted by AstroJoeUK on 06/12/2006


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May the penny drop
Hi Simon, you make some interesting points. Let me repeat my earlier statement: "I do believe that Muslims themselves are the single largest group of victims of the Quran. There are well over one billion of our fellow humans, whose lives are blighted by following this religion of "peace". " In truth, Christianity and Islam are very different, and I have made some notes describing the differences on my blog posting "The Pope calls for an end to Islamic violence, and churches burn". A link to my blog is below. You do not need to take my word for it, but study these two websites written by ex-Muslims: www*apostatesofislam*com and www*faithfreedom*org [change the * to .] When the penny drops, and you understand the truth about Islam for the first time, you will feel sickened in the pit of your stomach. How can so many of our fellow humans be so deceived by this bloodthirsty religion? It is the truth that the Quran is the primary inspiration for Islamic terrorists.
Link: http://st-george-true.blogspot.com/

Posted by Lionheart on 06/12/2006



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Humanity needs peace not Islam.